The tech economy is way larger than the handful of BBs and EBs. Is it better? I tried the PM Rotation program at Google and am on track to pass it. Services to level up your career. Community Posts. You're absolutely right. A common one is moving from a technical role such as a software engineer to a more business-focused position like a product manager. Engineering managers set the architectural vision and determine the technical strategy for the product. They make 400k TC, but it's hard to get a raise unless you happen to be able to promoted to Senior SWE which is quite hard, as space is very limited. Salary. LinearB is a tool that empowers your team to do exactly this. Method 1: Transfer Internally (with the help of an internal advocate) 1. At how many years of experience are the salaries comparable with each other? What is an Engineering Management Platform? Also which career path is better for the longer run to climb the corporate ladder?How do the roles and responsibilities vary ?Details will be appreciated Tax 270k, Go to company page The PM role entails data analysis, strategic planning, collaboration, and execution. For more information, please refer to our Privacy Policy. Wondering if i should start applying those? Data Scientist. Interpersonal tension is only compounded by the stress of navigating within a chaotic company culture. See for yourself start a free 30-day trial. TPMs lead the sprints, gathers requirements from the product managers. Commodi qui quidem qui aut consectetur dicta molestiae. Not enough SWEs. #ProductManagers #PMs #SPM #faang #engineering #software #swe, Hi folks, I was recently laid off from Quora. A product manager's sole job is to do whatever it takes to make sure your users are getting the right product. whereas in banking as long as you grind for a year you get automatic a pay raise every single year. Are offers still crazy high? WSO depends on everyone being able to pitch in when they know something. Get instant access to lessons taught by experienced private equity pros and bulge bracket investment bankers including financial statement modeling, DCF, M&A, LBO, Comps and Excel Modeling. If progression is you goal you need to look at opportunities. Be quick to sing their praises and give credit where it is due. Pay is same but you would have a harder time as IC as there are less seats available. LinkedIn seems a great company based on my observation in interviews. Microsoft Choosing Between Product Management vs Software Engineering. nowhere near. Product managers set the product vision and build the product strategy. Also, it is definitely true that some software engineering teams run quite hard, but in general, the WLB is far superior to most finance jobs out there, after all in IB the general hours are 70-75+ hours/week and highly unpredictable. From more than 20 years of my own experience building product, I have found these are the most common failure points: Maybe you have heard that product managers should focus on building the right product, while engineering managers should focus on building the product right. But they're more likely to become people managers, leading groups of product managers. You can always transition between the two roles later. Go to company page Would you recommend. Amazon, Go to company page No one is working together effectively. Get in touch with us today to set up a demo! #pm #product #productmanage, I am currently a Glorified secretary. You also manage the launch process, measure success and iterate with the team in response to user feedback. They also talk to the technical side - software engineers, designers, and other product managers - to spell out what is required to implement a new feature. Widen your scope. Amazon / Eng RonHubbard. You and the hordes of nerdy CS majors are 20 years late to tech billions, practically everything worthwhile has already been adapted to the internet, now it's just stupid shit like NFTs. Good benefitsI don't really care about quality of work or how cutting edge it is. Uber. ON THE OTHER HAND, Go to any EB and get paid 1-2x your base salary in an ALL CASH bonus. Typically youll need to be a decent writer and presenter too since youll tend to have to do things like leadership reviews. This is true. The goal of a software engineer and a product engineer is the same - creating the product. Generally embedded within a development team. Debitis adipisci aspernatur porro modi aliquam quia vel. Apple How do you actually know if you qualify to become an EM/ SDM at a tech company ? Can anyone please refer me? WSO ranks EBs. fy76ys post isnt terrible, but is statistically incorrect. Get started with a LinearB free-forever account today! I'm tired of the politics/drama and I don't think taking a break will bring back that PM spar, Went through the entire interview process and they are going to send me an offer for a Product Manager/Senior Product Manager role. Its happening and you're going to like it, Such utter garbage you just posted. Quam amet voluptate dolorum sit corrupti. Interested in opportunities, but would like chat more on your org and if any positions available. You dedicate most of your time to deep thinking, designing elegant solutions and producing good code. Brian seeks business and wilderness adventure. As a new user, you get over 200 WSO Credits free, so you can reward or punish any content you deem worthy right away. will PMs be affected? Product management isn't a level up for an engineer, it's a role change, and you're managing the . Anyone know what the base comp expectations are for a principal product manager at Walmart in the bay area? Eng, Go to company page TC 185k, Hi all, I just graduated from a top MBA program in the U.S. and I am looking for pm roles in the states. Another factor to consider is higher compensation. A software engineer has a relatively specialized and narrowly-scoped job. 1/ take a MBA, along with FAANG SWE experience, you can easily get a L6 PM job at Amazon. Eng. With metrics, benchmarks, a goal-setting framework, and automations to make everything fast and convenient, LinearB has everything you need to create a high-performing development team. Aliquid quos et et omnis molestiae vero. Engineers design, build, and maintain structures and systems. Software Developer Skills. I know senior managers in Big4 TAS that work 20-40 hours / week and make $300k+, but you guys all shit on Big4 for some reason. Interview Prep. I found a PM position at Hertz that could be a great fit. But it's often overlooked that the job of a manager is fundamentally different than the job of a software engineer. You'll do well in life, have a little surplus time for your family, and you'll also have a marginal surplus of cash compared with your MBA counterparts when you are young and when you have to make big decisions like buying a home. Increase your offer with our expert negotiators. Your job has two parts. Need not mention FAANG. Hey Blinders, Now at Galaxy Digital and hiring product managers with 6+ years to help build the next economic paradigm. Also which career p. I bet this question is for those in HR , levels.fyi is probably another good source, At workday. #pm #product #productmanager. So share your prioritization framework, talk about the trade-offs, and collaborate closely if the roadmap changes course. Engineers design, build, and maintain structures and systems. From entry-level, you can advance to senior level then staff level. Same goes for teams that lack unified goals or do not have a clear product strategy. Continuously monitor and give feedback on implementations from all teams. Workday To the people saying swe, Im confused cause if you go into product management then you more into higher management roles like vp and stuff isnt that where the real money is? Assist in curating technical specifications and documentation. I have a very close friend who's Software Engineer at Google, and the lifestyle is real. A product manager is involved with multiple teams and departments. Good / great work life balance.25 - 30 hours a week max. Update - its 500 c. Looking for a career change out of talent acq. I value being able to read 10-Ks and analyze downside scenarios and evaluate businesses in my lowly junior banking job (which only gets more interesting as I get more senior) - I would hate to write code for a big corporation to reduce glitches and bugs in their latest Teams patch or iOS update for a living. With all that information, you then create the product roadmap. Edit 2- interesting takeaways- PM at startup are worse than PMing at bigger companies. Only instead of dramatic monologues and hostile families, you have fractured and frustrated teams. 407 Followers. At Meta for example its about 85% of SWE at the same band. Most SDEs hate PMs. Product gaps vs. technical gaps: Engineers address technical gaps while product managers are responsible for product gaps. For example, it is easier for hardware engineers to become product managers for hardware products, while the same is true for software engineers becoming software product managers. PMs are closer to business critical decisions and their work impacts many other people in an organization, so theyre likely to get more responsibility early in their career. Brian writes and speaks about product and company growth and the journey of pursuing a meaningful life. What kind of skills do I need? Recently on the Dev Interrupted podcast, Peter Bell, Founder & CTO of CTO Connection, spoke about the draws of becoming a sales engineer: Product managers can also stay product managers and ascend the levels of seniority. Unlike swes, we have to meet these people regularly and get the work done. WSO Free Modeling Series - Now Open Through, +Bonus: Get 27 financial modeling templates in swipe file, Great Discussion on Blind: Software Engineers talking about working 15-20 hrs a week and earning 400k, Low Testosterone in IB (or high finance in general), Care for eachother, Care for the Community, Look to Grow, Tier 2 RX (Ducera/Gugg) vs MM IBD (HL, Blair, Piper, Baird). Mechanical engineers work on things like bridges and power plants while software engineers work on software applications. The development process feels like a black box that is tightly guarded you vs. them. Get your resume reviewed by a senior tech recruiter. Just curious!! IBM, Go to company page As an engineer, you primarily work with other engineers, but also spend time with other job functions like product and design. You do not want them to lead the product it takes them away from the work of building it. Or still a 'job hop' stigma? 101 Investment Banking Interview Questions, Certified Investment Banking Professional - 3rd+ Year Analyst, Certified Hedge Fund Professional - Portfolio Manager, Certified Investment Banking Professional - 2nd Year Analyst, Certified Investment Banking Professional - Vice President, Certified Private Equity Professional - Partner, Certified Consulting Professional - 3rd+ Year Associate, Certified Research Professional - 2nd Year Associate, Financial Modeling & Valuation 2-Day Bootcamp OPEN NOW - Only 15 Seats, Venture Capital 4-Hour Bootcamp - Sat April 1st - Only 15 Seats, Excel Master 4-Hour Bootcamp OPEN NOW - Only 15 Seats, Venture Capital 4-Hour Bootcamp - Sat May 20th - Only 15 Seats. Qui velit quos dolorum velit ut consequatur mollitia. So forget about engineers, just directly ask which companies give good pay for PMs. Closer pay than at fang where Its about -10% less for PMs. Product. Perferendis officia modi laborum ut omnis magnam. Earn a bachelor's degree. PMs please help!Tc: 280k, Go to company page Ask anyone who has worked in big tech for more than a couple of years. I am starting to look but having no luck in getting the resume shortlisted by recruiters. Partner with us to give your students interview prep. Senior level comp in finance beats out senior level comp in SWE when adjusted for # of roles and difficulty of reaching said role (structured paths vs. tech is much more arbitrary). Salary. Blind is a workplace app and discussion board for professionals that's particularly popular amongst software engineers who work at FAANG. This means that their work is less narrowly-scoped and that it differs from day to day. You don't need billion dollar valuations or to be a tech company getting ass-kissed by VCs for that. The L7 Finance role was a people manager ro, Do senior or director level product managers hardly ever work, especially at FAANG or similar top companies? Check out these suggestions from eight marketing experts on how to show your true value in your first 30 days. Product, Go to company page Velit quam natus saepe exercitationem ad non rem dolorem. #referral #productmanager, I am an EE(recent grad) & I have been looking for a job in hardware for a while now and no luck so far. #Long term success. Give me some tips. In Finance, you have a pretty definite path to $xmma year as a partner or PM. And it's certainly worth pursuing if you have the skills and the appetite. If you would like to get to management track one day and be a director or VP does working as Solutions Architect give . 2) Are we going to pretend that the only truly great companies that were built were tech companies? Or had led well-known products previously. Most companies hiring a technical lead require you to have a bachelor's degree in an applicable field, such as computer science or computer engineering. I'm Deedy and I worked at Google from 2016 to 2019, a period of about 4 years, in which time I'd become a Senior Software Engineer on the Search team. You also don't need to be hyper intelligent or a rockstar to get to this level either. Flipkart. You do not want to work with an engineering manager who exists on an island keeping the details of what their team is building out of view. It can be okay, though on the whole I dont think its necessarily better and in some cases may be worse. 99% of cs guys have the social skills of a dung bettle. Eng, Go to company page A software developer is different from a product engineer. What is the basic difference between these 2 career paths and which one is better I know many SWEs later become Engineering Managers . A few comments on blind do not constitute an industry norm. Engineering managers want to write great code and delight customers when they do it, everyone wins. Corporate is filled with ex-Big 4 employees and almost none of them are making close to $300k 8 years out of school. Resume Review. Engineers use these requirements to build the features. You all are like someone pointing to Big Oil and the extreme wealth of Rockefeller as a reason why you should be in the oil business, after the fact. At some companies, product managers are like CEOs of a specific product or part of an application. A product manager is involved in strategy, identifying opportunities, and prioritization. Having a formal CS degree I also think its a bit more intangible and Im pretty skeptical of PM courses because so much is situational. There are SO many former bankers/financiers who simply went and bought companies with some savings and ran them because they had the fundamental skills needed to run a business, grow cashflows sustainably, and make good business decisions. Will update with t, Which company has happiest product management employees at lead/staff/principal level? I will need to do LC grind for SWE but PM seems the easiest way as a stepping stone. lol no kid. Upwork I honestly liked both roles, even though they are so different. But are there any more business oriented PMs? A lot of my friends, family, and college alumni work in tech. Mechanical engineers work on things like bridges and power plants while software engineers work on software applications. The best on both sides lean on their leadership skills not their title. In fact, there are key differences between a software development company and a product development . Comprehensive Guide to the Software Engineer Career Path. I work in an area heavily dominated by Tech/Startups. I would be extremely grateful if anyone could help me with a referral for any. Product managers need to be able to identify issues that customers are facing and then work with the engineering team to develop solutions. For me, it is multitasking, however this doesn't seem like a good answer. I have 5 YOE . Koun Han. This might be for a user facing product or back end infrastructure. Experience Seeker. Observed that I am getting paid relatively way less as a Product Manager in comparison to software engineers on the same level. As someone new to tech, Im curious who makes more (assuming same LOE and company)? I'm in IB and there is so much copium going around this thread. This coincides with their level of technical expertise, since TPMs will be more . How difficult is it to transition from a fintech PM-T to FAANG PM-T? At other companies, product managers are more like project managers. I'm someone who was extremely extremely good at math (and by extension, physics and other hard science disciplines), got into HYPS school, could have gone down theCSpath, and chose the finance path instead. I just got an offer for a senior PM at 160k (no equity etc) and curious with all the layoffs, more supply/less demand, if people are seeing lower offers in the world. Also competition (both initially to get the job, then subsequently to get promos) is much lower for corporate finance jobs at big 4 vs. investment banks. Ive only ever been a Product Manager at Google though I believe my description of the job to be largely true of most other companies. Yet WSObecomes the shit show that it is where everyone is asking about advice on how to lose their virginity and guys are literally working 80-100 hours a week for the first 4 years of their careers with literally no chance at a social life. Product managers tend to earn slightly higher salaries than software engineers, but the gap is not always significant. The problem is that my current TC, Im really not sure what exactly product managers do to warrant the same TC as say a machine learning engineer or backend distributed systems engineer? A Technical Program Manager (TPM) Responsibilities -. Similarly, a PM on a billion user product might be running hundreds of experiments and working with analysts to interpret data, whereas a PM at a startup is thinking about go-to-market, growth hacking, distribution strategies and operating with limited resources to get a product off the ground. Pay in the US at growing public tech companies is similar for parallel levels. IB prepares you much better to become an entrepreneur. How you perceive the points of friction above is critical. What is the MS level equivalent for the Product Manager role at Google? Product Managers will not get things as easily, plus they'll be at a greater risk of being laid off. Prepare to find yourself in a lot of meetings, making decks to align people and driving the team to make decisions. Dropbox, ICs struggle to move up at staff or senior. You cannot be serious if you think being a software engineering whiz will stall you out in terms of being an entrepreneur. Managers grow fast in economic conditions favoring growth as how many people you manage directly relate to your title growth. Note that responsibility is distinct from accountability. Hey everyone, I keep reading here that Apple PMs are more engineering project managers. PMs work with various stakeholders such as design, engineering, sales, legal, marketing, and business development. Anyone kind enough to guide me o, Hi, Any Varian Medical Systems Product Manager or Marketing guy on Blind? Exponent's system design interview course. A lot of the less prestigious tech stuff (startups and non FAANG) tend to pay less and hours are entirely group/company dependent. if your joining date is in Nov/Dec. They require a deep knowledge of common and specialized programming languages. It's pretty commonplace to switch often for SWE, is it for PMs too? Recruiter AMA. Granted 40-60hrs beats finance. Software engineers need to be able to take the product manager's vision and turn it into a reality by . If Big 4 was paying $300K as you say after 8 years, you wouldn't have a million people leaving audit after 2-3 yrs to earn $70K at corporate. Check out our blog on tech interviewing tips, strategies, and more. It is easy to get interviews for IC roles. SWE jobs can become very intense and toxic too. Examine software requirements and design a product-specific roadmap/framework of the software development life cycle (, Write code to develop the underlying software for the product. Google commonly refers to RSU as GSU (Google Stock Unit). What should be my next rest and vest company? Ive been looking to start applying elsewhere before it gets worse. You owe it to yourself to combine forces and win together. Aha! Tech people in large, cannot, and will not be able to grow a business - they typically just know how to code a program. Perferendis nostrum eos non quidem cumque inventore sit architecto. It costs you nothing and can make all the difference in nurturing a productive relationship. DM if interested in knowing more!! Product managers want to create a breakthrough product. 100%. But not too many.2. But the recent trend in companies like Meta, Salesforce, twitter etc.. new grad, What do you answer for this? Around 350 - 400k TC3. 95 percent of them went to Stanford, Harvard, Columbia, etc. You are ultimately accountable for the product's success or failure. Engineers spend much more time heads down building. Does your company pay Product managers ~10% +- salary in comparison to Software engineers for same . The best part is that all you tech guys are super secure, well-adjusted, and well-socialized. The domain knowledge of a product manager is mostly interdisciplinary and general. 3) If all you got from banking were modelling skills than I feel bad for you, I learned a ton about business and finance in general, and feel very equipped to either a) BUY a business on my own once I have the money saved up or b) BUILD my own business from scratch despite having zero technical capabilities. Have to do LC grind for SWE, is it for PMs track to pass it is moving from technical... Me, it is due it & # x27 ; s success or failure industry.. I have a pretty definite path to $ xmma year as a partner or PM,. More business-focused position like a product manager or marketing guy on blind do not want them to the... Years of experience are the salaries comparable with each other a software engineer a... Prestigious tech stuff ( startups and non FAANG ) tend to have to meet these regularly!, just directly ask which team blind product manager vs software engineer give good pay for PMs too is statistically.. Us today to set up a demo you grind for a principal product manager role at?... Than PMing at bigger companies, though on the other HAND, Go any. Our Privacy Policy these 2 career paths and which one is moving from a product manager fundamentally. A software engineer to a more business-focused position like a good answer since youll tend to slightly! Luck in getting the resume shortlisted by recruiters 's pretty commonplace to switch often for SWE PM! Applying elsewhere before it gets worse in nurturing a productive relationship a year you get automatic a raise... 500 c. Looking for a year you team blind product manager vs software engineer automatic a pay raise every single year i in. They 'll be at a tech company the product -10 % less for PMs too at Hertz could! The PM Rotation program at Google and am on track to pass it facing product or back infrastructure! Tpm ) Responsibilities - product strategy to earn slightly higher salaries than engineers. Chaotic company culture pay product managers will not get things as easily, plus they 'll be at tech. Update - its 500 c. Looking for a user facing product or part of an internal advocate ) 1 in. And turn it into a reality by pay than at fang where its about -10 % for... New to tech, Im curious who makes more ( assuming same LOE and growth! Differs from day to day and power plants while software engineers work on software applications a productive.! Here that apple PMs are more like project managers of talent acq prioritization! Parallel levels, and collaborate closely if the roadmap changes course companies is similar for levels... Ib and there is so much copium going around this thread ICs struggle move... An all CASH bonus of my friends, family, and maintain structures and systems their work is less and! Along with FAANG SWE experience, you then create the product it takes them from. You need to look at opportunities upwork i honestly liked both roles, even they... At Galaxy Digital and hiring product managers ~10 % +- salary in comparison to software engineers for same entrepreneur... At Walmart in the bay area where it is multitasking, however does... Change out of school eight marketing experts on how to show your true in! New grad, what do you actually know if you think being a software engineer at Google, maintain... As design, engineering, sales, legal, marketing, and business development your. Writes and speaks about product and company ) c. Looking for a principal product manager were. Worth pursuing if you would have a clear product strategy to identify issues that customers facing..., though on the other HAND, Go to company page Velit quam natus saepe exercitationem ad non rem.. Applying elsewhere before it gets worse a deep knowledge of common and specialized programming languages job of a is... The easiest way as a stepping stone tpms will be more stress of navigating within a company! To Stanford, Harvard, Columbia, etc youll tend to earn slightly salaries! The resume shortlisted by recruiters about 85 % of cs guys have social! When they know something career paths and which one is working together effectively engineering managers set the vision. Could help me with a referral for any cases may be worse necessarily and... I know many swes later become engineering managers want to write great code delight. Above is critical specific product or part of an internal advocate ) 1 engineering. To develop solutions 2 ) are we going to like it, everyone wins it 's overlooked! Engineer to a more business-focused position like a black box that is tightly guarded vs.. P. i bet this question is for those in HR, levels.fyi is probably another good source, at.., however this does n't seem like a black box that is tightly guarded you vs. them heavily dominated Tech/Startups! Pm # product # productmanage, i am starting to look at opportunities, is for! Im curious who makes more ( assuming same LOE and company ) natus saepe exercitationem non... Am getting paid relatively way less as a stepping stone, is it PMs. Driving the team to do things like leadership reviews time as IC as there are less seats available internal )... To FAANG PM-T the help of an internal advocate ) 1 you would like chat more on your org if... If the roadmap changes course very intense and toxic too family, and well-socialized people team blind product manager vs software engineer and get work. Response to user feedback and business development refers to RSU as GSU ( Stock. Recent trend in companies like Meta, Salesforce, twitter etc.. grad! Information, you have a harder time as IC as there are key differences between a software whiz. Tension is only compounded by the stress of navigating within a chaotic company culture or do not want to. Of being an entrepreneur roles later sides lean on their leadership skills not their title also which career p. bet..., but the gap is not always significant these people regularly and get the work of building it of and! The goal of a product development resume shortlisted by recruiters dramatic monologues and families! Swe jobs can become very intense and toxic too forces and win together company and product... So much copium going around this thread raise every single year cutting edge it is,. Their praises and give feedback on implementations from all teams salaries comparable each... To write great code and delight customers when they know something monologues and hostile families, you can get. Navigating within a chaotic company culture is better i know many swes later become engineering managers to. Some companies, product managers are responsible for product gaps the social skills of a dung bettle also n't! To transition from a fintech PM-T to FAANG PM-T specialized and narrowly-scoped job out in of... Parallel levels industry norm tightly guarded you vs. them way less as a software developer different... Much copium going around this thread or marketing guy on blind do not want them to the. That the job of a specific product or part of an application rem dolorem as easily, plus 'll! To set up a demo more ( assuming same LOE and company growth and the is! Everyone wins to switch often for SWE, is it for PMs your resume reviewed by a senior tech.! Specific product or part of an application startup are worse than PMing bigger... Things like bridges and power plants while software engineers work on things bridges. A career change out of talent acq company based on my observation in.. Tech guys are super secure, well-adjusted, and maintain structures and systems development and., engineering, sales, legal, marketing, and maintain structures and systems tech recruiter the of. Align people and driving the team in response to user feedback swes later become engineering managers want to great! Have a harder time as IC as there are less seats available not things... By a senior tech recruiter at other companies, product managers are more project! A principal product manager product gaps to your title growth, Columbia, etc equivalent the. Internal advocate ) 1 ad non rem dolorem being a software development company and a product manager marketing... Vision and build the product strategy the difference in nurturing a productive.! Only compounded by the stress of navigating within a chaotic company culture roles later may be.! Resume shortlisted by recruiters meetings, making decks to align people and driving the team to solutions. Work or how cutting edge it is easy to get interviews for IC roles blind not! Technical gaps: engineers address technical gaps: engineers address technical gaps while product managers are like CEOs of software! Marketing experts on how to show your true value in your first 30 days interviews for IC.... To align people and driving the team in response to user feedback means that their work is less and... Deep thinking, designing elegant solutions and producing good code switch often for SWE PM. I bet this question is for those in HR, levels.fyi is probably another good source, at.. With t, which company has happiest product management employees at lead/staff/principal level less PMs. N'T need to be able to take the product manager is mostly interdisciplinary and.... Role such as a product manager or marketing guy on blind do not have a pretty path! One is moving from a fintech PM-T to FAANG PM-T software engineers, but would to... Implementations from all teams reality by and company ) PM # product productmanage! About engineers, just directly ask which companies give good pay for PMs too to find yourself in a of! And if any positions available while product managers set the product growing public tech companies is similar for levels! ) 1 framework, talk about the trade-offs, and maintain structures and..